Racism isn't Born
| Shelved by: Meadock on 2012-08-07Source: www.facebook.com
56 Comments:
People in general have a preference for their own over others, starting at birth. While I don't consider that racist in anyway, some might.
Downvote for being mostly false, but mostly false is partially true.. WHY is it partially true? Because in today's society this is taught to kids of all races, if it weren't there would be no "preference"
Is it also taught for animals too? Separate breeds of animals like to stay with their breeds. Animals are so racist...
Where is your proof of this? I was going to say maybe this is true for different species of animal, but then I remembered this
Go look out your window. There is your proof. Even the fact that there are different breeds to a species means that they like to hold to their own, if they didn't those breeds wouldn't even exist.
Your argument is that this preference starts at birth. It is taught to the young by their elders. As for where their elders picked discrimination or a lack of discrimination up is beyond me. Different "breeds" or variations of a species exist either due to evolutionary adaption to their immediate environment or more typically, human meddling.
That's not my argument. My argument was that it is instinctive and not taught. The proof that it's instinctive is that animals do it too. Also, we're not arguing how the species came about, we're arguing that they stay together.
Read your original post :) You have yet to present proof that animals do it instinctively. I just saw a bunch of birds chilling with cows. Neither of them seem to have a problem with the other.
You don't seem to understand what I mean.
I understand. Different breeds of the same species. But do you realize where the different breeds came from? From them not sticking with "their own kind," as you say.
Staying in the same area and staying with the same kind is different.
So are you talkin about cross species breeding? Because all humans are the same species.
I don't know, dude. I went to an animal shelter the other day and saw a hell of a lot of muts. Any studies to substantiate?
Most muts are bred by humans. Either at random or trying to get certain traits. There are very very few wild or feral muts.
Aye, most surviving litters altogether probably are bred by humans. But there are millions of stray dogs and cats in the US alone and the ASPCA estimates that only 10% of the animals taken in by shelters are neutered. Strays definitely mate in the streets. I'd really like to see the empirical evidence supporting the idea that these animals prefer their own breed, not due to being raised alongside their similar siblings and parents, but innately.
I'd also like to see evidence that animals don't prefer their own breed over others.
As for your request I went on a few dog forums, filled with people who love dogs and know a lot about them. I found a few topics based around this issue, they all support my claim.
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97500
http://poochdogs.com/dogquestions/?p=373
It's most evident in chihuahuas, that they prefer their own breed. If they interact with a dog of another breed they usually end up fighting or ignoring the other dog.
So would I. Reliable evidence for either claim would be helpful.
Well, these are forum threads with posts from people who, for the most part, own one to several dogs and are speaking based on their observations as owners. I didn't see any stating they were ethologists or providing statistics or studies. Skimming through most of these posts, there are also a good deal of owners who have observed their dog(s) showing no preferences.
However, even if they were all in agreement that there is a breed preference, they would still need to provide evidence that the preference is an innate quality and not a trait which is developed by growing up with their littermates.
The fact is that the dogs are raised by humans, but when they go out to a public place they show a preference to a breed of dog (their breed) they haven't even been raised around. You don't need to be an expert on ethology to notice behavior in a dog. Sure you might not understand it as well, but you still notice the same behavior. Also, how are the forums not reliable? It's a bunch of people that noticed their dogs had preferences to their own breed, it's not like they're going to lie about that. What I said above holds true to this too.
Even assuming that the mostly anonymous forum posters are being 100% honest, there is still no consensus or conclusion either way. And they still are not specifically discussing the behavioral differences between dogs raised for their first few weeks, as most are, with dogs of the same breed and those who have been raised without same breed companions.
So pretty much you're now complaining about how the information is listed. There is not census I could find of this, but I gave you the necessary information to prove my point. It still stands that you don't need to be an expert on animals to notice basic behaviors.
Now it's your turn to step up to the plate, why don't you go out and get evidence for the counter-claim and post it here. Instead of making irrelevant remarks on the media of which the information is transferred.
You provided forum posts filled with anonymous opinions as empirical evidence. My only claim was that your claim was unsubstantiated. Your lack of evidence is my evidence.
Wait...my lack of evidence. Is your evidence? The burden of proof is on you to disprove what others claim. If there claim is not substantial then it shall be easy to counter.
A claim should be supported by evidence--otherwise it's just an opinion (and these are all opinions). :) While I find opinions entertaining, there's no practical constructive purpose to them; only expression and entertainment.
They're not opinions, they noticed their dogs behaved a certain way and talked about it on a forum. Is it their opinion that their dogs act that way? No, it's more of an observation. Many people have made the same observation making it more credible. Still nobody has posted any evidence on the contrary, so in reality we shouldn't be arguing about opinions, facts, and observations until we have both sides of the argument. Once we have both sides and they both seem possible, then we look at which side has more opinions, facts, and observations.
I can't even argue with you because you keep talking in circles and contradicting yourself. Go home.
I'd reply to that but I was told not to feed the trolls :-\
doesn't go in a circle, you just got lost.
Congratulations, you have successfully pulled me down to your level and beaten me with experience.
Congratz, you obviously couldn't follow a single argument; then accused me of contradicting myself. Where did I contradict myself?
The part where you said different breeds for species proves your point, then I brought to your attention that different breeds come from species mating with different breeds, then you said that's not what you're talking about. Remember that? Lol and nice use of a semicolon. Not the correct use, but I admire your attempt. I eagerly await your next intelligent reply where you can showcase your superior intellect.
Wait you think other breeds are created by breeding with different breeds? Did you even pass basic biology? Different breeds arise out of adapting to the environment around them. Not that shit you claimed. I'm not even going to argue about the off-topic grammar thing you brought up though.
How old are you? I'm serious.
Okay. Dogs and cats are two completely separate species. You'll notice, however, that a German Sheppard will happily copulate with a poodle! They do not see anything wrong with members of their own species.
Now, Black, White and Asian Humans are all the same species.
Your argument is hugely flawed.
We do not automatically distance ourselves from people who are different. Quite the opposite, in fact, as children will often ask people who are different "Why do you look different from how I look?" as they are curious.
No shit dogs and cats are separate species, nobody even argued that. I never argued cross species breeding, it's impossible. I was arguing that breeds PREFERRED their own breed. Yes a German Sheppard and a Poodle can mix, but can you prove that it's done out of preferring one over the other? The links I posted above show that the preference of a dog is within its own breed.
Yes, we are all humans. We are not all the same race/breed though. This can be biologically proven.
My argument, the one with the evidence, is flawed?
Have you heard of the phenomena called "White Flight"? I suggest you look it up. People prefer to be with their own. People who have common customs, cultures, and ideals as them.
You have made it very clear you do not know a lot about animals. FYI: they don't give a shit about breed either. They will play, whatever, with any dog which shares the want to play.
Common customs, cultures and ideals are different from people preferring to interact with people of the same race. You're suggesting that people (subconsciously) go "there are two people over there, but I'm going to talk to the one with the same skin colour" when, really, that doesn't happen in children at all. If you bring up a child to be wary of people who are different, they will subconsciously avoid interactions with people who are different. If you leave a child to view people how they want to, then they generally will interact with whoever.
And with "common customs, cultures and ideals" that can be absolutely anyone from the same country as you. It does not mean skin colour. IDK, maybe you live in a white majority area, or whatever, but most people don't actually give much of a shit.
Certainly children.
You have made it very clear that you didn't click on any of the links I provided, because if you had you wouldn't be saying such ill-informed things. The links I posted completely contradicts what you have just said, Animals do care which breed they interact with. Seeing as they prefer their own. If your complete ignorance for the topic continues I might not respond until you get your non-existent evidence.
You're still making blank claims with no evidence. Prove what you are saying to me. Do you really believe a child is going to "pick at random" rather than talk to the one who looks like him and his family.
They don't have the same culture or customs as me. They keep their own customs, That is why it is called Multiculturalism.....America is a multicultural country.
Go to a dog park, rather than something which has been set up (I don't mean fixed, I mean a set up environment) see what dogs interact with what.
Then, take yourself to a preschool (with permission) See what kids interact with what kids.
Then come back. Then make a comment
As a Psychology student; studies are flawed. All sorts of variables are in them.
And frankly, I view you as racist. Why? Because you're separating out people. Which is part of segregation.
The British are also multicultural. And, frankly, I have quite a bit in common with people of other nationalities. Maybe its different, but we encourage diversity.
Hell, 30 years ago, boys and girls didn't "choose" each other. This is because they were taught to "stay with their own kind" as in, their own gender. This has changed greatly today.
I'm not saying dogs won't interact with other dogs. I'm saying they prefer their own breed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOVwrcTzRBs
This video shows children prefer their own race over others. The parent react in such a negative way, that it shows that they we're not raised by someone who would "Act Disgusted" at another race. Also, the kids say that the kids that they choose are good because they look like them.
I'm racist because I prefer people who are similar to me? Multiculturalism has done nothing but harm to nations. Nations lose their culture and identity through multiculturalism. By the way, how were those "London Riots"?
Boys and Girls are meant to be with each other, it shouldn't have to be taught.
The London Riots were done by every type of person. It started because a boy was killed by a police officer because he was Black, and it started as a peaceful protest. Then, some group of people decided "hey, lets take this a step further". They didn't do it for the sake of the boy who was killed, they did it because they wanted to break things. They did not do it because "A lot of white Police Officers are racists. Stop racism in the police force" (what the peaceful protest was about), they just wanted to wreck stuff.
There were Whites, Blacks, Indians, EVERY NATIONALITY that were attacking Whites, Blacks, Indians, big businesses, small businesses, statues, you name it. Essentially, they indiscriminately attacked others. No divisions there.
So do not use something you do not know about as an attack.
But my point is is that boys and girls, in the past, didn't chose to mingle with each other.
That is exactly what I'm talking about in regards to studies. That child is choosing from pictures of a cartoon child. See how much it changes if she's choosing from a photograph. Also, one off studies (like that one) do not work with children of that age. They change their answers at a drop of a hat.
"Multiculturalism has done nothing but harm to nations" - Racism. It does not harm nations. British cultures still exist, so that's utter rubbish.
Here are some of the top search results for "London Riots"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP-td3C55Yc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed0QJJL9sYQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm8r8I7ApDQ
The majority of these attacks on stores are carried out by ethnic minorities. I'm not saying they're all minorities, but most of them are.
As for why the riots started
http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2011/08/london-riots.html
Here it claims Mark Duggan was killed in a shootout, not because he was black. Also he was not a boy, he was 29.
It's natural for a male to be with a female, it shouldn't be made a choice
Show me the study where the children changed their answers at a drop of a hat. I'd like to see that.
British culture may still exist, but it is diminishing, What about all the cities in America that have been turned to rubbish from blacks? I can't walk through Detroit because I am white? What about in Sweden, where immigrant took over a local area and they throw rocks at any white person driving by??? Is that acceptable? How has multiculturalism helped any nation? Tell me that.
You know what. I don't like talking to you.
Pretty much because of the riots. You don't know a thing about them, so fuck off.
Actually it seems like you didn't know much about them, I actually kept up on them when they were happening. You didn't even know the correct cause of the riots. I'm sorry that I knew about something that happened in your country.
Funnily enough. I bloody watched them too.
Do not talk to me about the riots. Especially, when you don't actually freaking know about them. If you did, you knew that the most devastating damage and the physical body attacks wasn't done by minorities, but by whites.
That's called "procreation" you fucking twat. Humans can breed with humans of any "race". A hippo can't breed with a fuckin catfish you cunt.
The idiot remains within the person who misinterpreted what I have said. Did you even read past that initial comment?
Idiocy^. And no, because of decreasing my IQ already, I refused to do further damage.
What about spinach? Or chicken livers?
